How to Talk About Sex with Your Partner
Do you struggle to communicate with your partner about what you do and don’t like in the bedroom?
In this episode, sexologist Mickie Woods and I discuss how on earth to make talking about sex something that’s more sexy than it is cringe, all about boundaries and how they can be liberating rather than claustrophobic, we explore the tendency for women to be people pleasers, the importance of self-exploration for deeper pleasure and what she calls a ‘masturdate’.
Mickie Woods is a sexologist, writer, and entrepreneur. Over the years, her work has centred on the importance of authentic human connection and the power of self-awareness. Her latest endeavour Sex Talk, is a card game intended to facilitate healthy discussions on sex and help improve our most intimate relationships.
This podcast is for YOU, so if you ever have any questions you’d like me to answer on the show, or topics you’d like me to cover – reach out to me on email here or over on instagram @eleanorhadley
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Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Sensuality Academy Podcast!
The Sensuality Academy Podcast is edited and produced with thanks to Music Producer/Mixer, Matthew Hadley. You can find his work at www.matthewhadley.net
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Episode Transcript
Hello and welcome to The Sensuality Academy Podcast!
Let’s talk about sex! Better yet, let’s talk about talking about sex!
Today I’m joined by the wonderful Mickie Woods - a sexologist, writer, and entrepreneur. Over the years, her work has centred on the importance of authentic human connection and the power of self-awareness. Her latest endeavour Sex Talk, is a card game intended to facilitate healthy discussions on sex and help improve our most intimate relationships.
I’ve been following Mickie’s fabulous instagram account @quickieswithmickie for years now and she has a really beautiful way of sharing about all things sex, intimacy, pleasure, communication and relationships.
If you’re familiar with my work, you’ll know that communication in relationships is something I’m hugely passionate about. So, when I saw that Mickie was creating a card game specifically to encourage couples to actively talk actively about sex - I knew it was going to be a game changer.
In this episode, Mickie and I discuss how on earth to make talking about sex something that’s more sexy than it is cringe, all about boundaries and why they can be liberating rather than claustrophobic, we explore the tendency for women to be people pleasers, the importance of self-exploration for deeper pleasure and what she calls a ‘masturdate’ - that’s a masturbation date for those playing along at home - and so much more.
You’re going to love hearing Mickie’s insights, so without further ado - here’s Mickie.
Enjoy!
[INTERVIEW]
ELEANOR: Welcome Mickie and thank you so much for coming onto the Sensuality Academy Podcast. It is a pleasure to have you here.
MICKIE: Thank you Eleanor so much for having me.
ELEANOR: So, today we are talking all about Sex Talk your new card game. Let’s get straight into it. I would love to hear a little bit more about what this is and what inspired you to create this game.
MICKIE: Sure. A little about me - my background is actually in business so I have a degree in Business with a concentration in Marketing from Georgia Tech. For a few months, I’ve known since age about 19 years, I’m 24 years now, that I wanted to be in the field of Sexuality. That I wanted to study Sex, be a Sexologist and all those things. I never really knew what route I wanted to take. I didn’t know if I wanted to be a therapist or do stuff on the media side or research. I spent years blogging putting myself out there and learning what I didn’t like, what I was good at, what I wasn’t good at.
A few months ago I started brainstorming - I wanted to start a business to use my business background to create something that is accessible for people. I've learnt so much valuable stuff as I transform my intimate relationships over the years. How can I bring this into an accessible way for people on a large scale all over? I am good at writing and I am good at talking about Sex and I have noticed over the years that a lot of people struggle with talking about all these things. I thought why don’t I create a card game and I haven’t looked back since. I came up with the idea back in May. I’ve been doing everything from Scratch, Bootstrapping and now we are at the stage that is about to launch. It’s a whole card game, it’s 69 Questions all about Sex, called Sex Talk and it’s my entire life now.
ELEANOR: So amazing. I think this is so needed because like you said, so many people are so afraid to talk about sex. It’s like we are more comfortable actually having sex than talking about it. Why do you think that is?
MICKIE: So many reasons, for starters - most of us didn’t grow up with quality comprehensive Sex Ed. Either we had the content wasn’t there, we had teachers that were awkward about discussing it, teaching it to us or our parents were uncomfortable talking about it or didn’t really talk about it with us, didn’t really touch on it.
On top of that, in media we see images, videos, movies, TV shows were sex was presented but it’s chopped and people aren’t actually talking about it. It’s this idea that you just dive in, it just happens, you don’t have to discuss it, it just happens naturally. All these mixed messages that we get about sex throughout our lives, come the time when we are ready to have it or wanting to improve it in our intimate lives we are about clueless, we don’t have a great starting point of effectively discussing or finding the language to describe what we want, what we like, or what we need. So, there are lots of resources out there, it’s not east to effectively talk about sex in the right situation but with the right tools, with the right kind of practice we can all get better at this. That is what I’m hoping for Sex Talk to do it for a lot of people, to help people navigate those tough conversations in a easy more effective way.
ELEANOR: So beautiful. So important. I can’t wait to see this game I think that it will change a lot of people's lives.
MICKIE: Yay! That is what I am hoping to do.
ELEANOR: Something that you said that I loved, I have been following you for awhile and I really loved your words. Something that you have said - I’m going to be quoting you back to you today.
MICKIE: That’s a weird feeling. Ok here we go.
ELEANOR: You said that ‘we live in a sexually obsessed world but yet a sexually repressed world. We would rather exchange bodily fluids than exchange words’ Was this a huge inspiration for you behind Sex Talk?
MICKIE: Yeah, I’ve always tried to pinpoint what point did we become more comfortable having sex than talking about sex? When did it get weird and I think that people shy away from talking about it because there is some assumption that we are supposed to know what we are doing. We are often afraid of saying the wrong words, saying the wrong thing. I think that we limit ourselves in that. There then becomes this chartered area of all these avenues for growth, for more connection if we just discuss it but we let our insecurities or our fears away from doing that. I am all for normalising this conversation, making it as normal as talking about what you want for dinner? What do you want for sex? I would love to live in world where we ask people - what would you like for sex tonight? We are able to invite more variety, experiences that are catered to our particular bodies, our wants, our needs, our ways of achieving pleasure that would be really cool to me.
ELEANOR: I love that idea - what is on the menu for sex tonight? We haven’t tried this in awhile, try that. That is such a great idea. I love that. What would you say to people who feel that it’s too awkward still to talk about sex or that it ruins the mood?
MICKIE: I want to know who these people are. My first thought always goes to men because it’s always easy to pick on men when it comes to sex because as a CIS, heterosexual woman there are always ways to improve here. If it’s a man that says ‘why do we have to talk about it? It feels awkward talking about it. That leads to me to assume that they are not fully considering their partner for me communication is a no brainer because I want to make sure that not only am I trying to make the most out of this experience but I am allowing my partner to get the most out of this experience and to feel the most comfortable, to experience the most pleasure and communication before, during and after is almost mandatory for me as I want to check in with my partner and make sure they are on the same page constantly. I think that consent really is beneficial to look at consent in that way as well. It could be withdrawn at any moment so it’s just more effective to check in with your partner and to make sure that they are good. It alarms me when people don’t want to talk about it and I think that there is so much more to experience when we open up the conversation.
ELEANOR: You are so right. I love that idea of having communication about sex shows empathy and interest in your partners pleasure not that just that one sided view that so often especially when we are picking on men and their lack sexual prowess. It can be a very one sided thing and that’s a real shame because there are so many people out there that aren’t experiencing the deep pleasure that their body is capable of because they simply won't talk about it.
MICKIE: To think about what you just said, from my studies, from my research and my own personal experience I have found that often male anatomy, the male body, is a bit more simple than female anatomy. I know that from my experience and all the women that I have talked to that every single vulva is completely different so it's one of those things that you have to talk about it because something that you did for the last one that you were with might not work for this new woman might not work for this one. Some women don’t orgasm from penetrative sex, some women don’t like oral sex, some women require oral sex. Everybody likes sex differently. Everyone experiences pleasure differently, male or female body. It’s one of those things - there isn’t a script to doing it. It’s to be approached differently for every person, every body, every experience. That is what makes it that more beautiful, more pleasurable in my opinion.
ELEANOR: You are absolutely right. I think that this something that so many people don’t realise especially with the overuse of things like porn where it literally follows a script, it uses an algorithm to create something that gets more clicks, more views and therefore makes them more money and it has taken the humanness out of it. I know that I have friends tell me that their partner has actually said to them that it has worked for their last partner, I wouldn't know why it wouldn’t work for you? Because they didn’t even realise or even consider that everybody has very different bodies and feels pleasure very differently and it’s so wild to think that we don’t consider that people are different. It’s not just this one size fits all, that this is going to work for everybody - left, right, up, down, turn around and then we are done.
MICKIE: Yeah, and to think about that even further because I love everything you just said. To add on, everybody’s body is different, every person is different. Additionally, our bodies change over time. So what we might have liked 5 years ago could be completely different to what we like now and especially as a woman, as we grow older we experience menopause, we experience all these different things, changes and hormones. So your interests and desires change and evolve just as we change and evolve so that is something that I feel should definitely be considered for all bodies, all genders, all sexual preferences, sexualities, everything.
ELEANOR: Such a great point about how our bodies and therefore our desires change over time. Even as menstruators within the one month sometimes our Cervixes harden, sometimes it’s lower meaning penetration will feel better or worse week by week and what I would love for non menstruators to understand that we are cyclical beings and our body will physically change every single day and so what could feel good last week won’t feel good this week and same with over the years when we are in our 20’s vs when we are in our 30s, 40s, 50s things are going to feel different, we are going to want to explore like our taste buds change. I think there is a lot of commonalities between sex and food.
ELEANOR: I really think there’s so much to be said like you were talking about before - what’s on the dinner menu, what’s on the sex menu tonight. How are our tastes changing? What do we want to try? Have we explored this flavour yet? It’s so beautiful to consider.
MICKIE: Yeah. There’s so much power to finding the words, finding the language to describe how you feel, what you want in this moment, why you want it, what you don’t want or using what you don’t want to discover what you do want. That’s from everything from what you want to eat for dinner to what you want to do for sex tonight. There’s so much power. 1) self-awareness and 2) finding the words to express it.
ELEANOR: I love that you brought up self-awareness because that is something that I talk about so much with my clients. I’m constantly talking about questioning your conditioning, kind of understanding where it is that you are coming from internally and asking yourself questions and being reflective and inquisitive with yourself as well as with partners. I think that so often especially for us who identify as female we have never really allowed ourselves or been given permission by society to own our pleasure. So, self-pleasure and self-exploration is not something that is commonly spoken about or encouraged. So how can you communicate and explore what it is you want and desire in a partnered relationship if you are not aware of it yourself?
MICKIE: Exactly. That seems to me the easiest way to cultivate more pleasurable, more healthier experiences is through self-pleasure, exploring your own body literally making love to yourself. Treating yourself having a ‘masturdate’ of what I like to call it, learning the ins and outs of your body and your erogenous zones and knowing what it really takes to turn you on, to get you off and once you know that it does make it a lot easier communicate that to another person.
ELEANOR: I love that. So you said ‘masturdate’ like a date to masturbate. That’s so great. That all rhymed. I love that so much because I think there is a real disconnection when it comes to self pleasure. We get to a point where we do it out of tension release, a strong desire but it’s quite unconscious. For us vulva owners, heavy focus on the clitoris and then as I call it ‘snack sex’ - that explosive orgasm that is short and sharp. It’s great but it’s like a little snack and you’re still hungry afterwards vs the idea of going on a masturdate having this juicy long beautiful romantic experience with myself. Amazing.
MICKIE: Yeah. I always encourage people to try something new, spoil yourself in a new way. We can find ourselves in this routine knowing the 2-minute approach for getting ourselves off and we just stick to that, we do that every single time. Explore. Take your time. Set the mood to literally romance yourself as you said and in the same way that you would want variety, adventure and spontaneity with a partner, offer that to yourself. Remain open minded to what that could look like to you.
ELEANOR: Definitely. Bringing it back to Sex Talk is this something you created specifically for partners, is it something that people could explore on their own, for their own self reflection?
MICKIE: Yeah. I created it as a two person experience where you ask each other these questions and each question builds upon the previous one so it creates this beautiful partnered experience of sexual tension, learning about your body, learning why you are the way you are sexually, what your interests are and leading up to questions pertaining to a shared experience between two people. However, as I’ve been doing testing letting friends look through the questions I have had a few friends say to me ‘I’m going to play this by myself’ - I’ve never even asked these questions to myself and I will have to sit down and think about the answers because these are such enriching questions that I have never thought to, of course ask a partner, but I think it's also a great way to explore your own sexuality, your own sexual preferences and to get to know yourself as a sexual being. It can definitely be shared between two people, it can also be for a masturdate as well.
ELEANOR: That is so beautiful. How would you explain to people when they have that question - talking about sex makes me feel very uncomfortable, I feel like if you to have voice yourself it kills the mood. I know that we spoke a little about this before but I know that there are so many people especially when it comes to consent, this has been a really hot topic. People are like it totally kills the mood for me to have to ask. How can you introduce consensual sex and introduce more conversation and communication about your desires without feeling robotic.
MICKIE: That could also be applied to this situation where some people are talking about it, they might say - it makes my dick soft. It totally turns me off, the communication part. Understood. That’s where I was saying earlier you have to consider your partner and everyone has different desire languages. Everyone has different ways they like to be romanced or ways they like to experience foreplay. If you are in a relationship and you are someone who doesn’t really like to put up all the rules and parameters and a whole lot of talking but your partner is that way to, it could work. As long as you have set the ground rules way beforehand. That is seen a lot in the kink community - people give their partners permission to do what they want with their body. I trust you, let’s have this shared experience, let’s let it happen organically. Whereas for some people it’s not that way and I can speak personally especially when I am just getting to know someone, when it’s someone new in my life. I need to talk about it, I need us to be in communication and to me it can be a very sexy thing. Like with dirty talk to be in communication, whispering your partners ear during sex, reaffirm them, asking if they are feeling good, if what you are doing feels good to them, remind them of how attracted you are to them. There’s different ways that you can approach talking about sex but it’s about both people and what works for both of you to have a consensual pleasurable experience if that makes sense.
ELEANOR: Absolutely does. I think that’s so important to recognise that is about creating pleasurable, safe, fun experiences and not just the end goal in mind and really considering your partner and their pleasure as well as your own. Like you said, consent can be really sexy when we are seamlessly incorporating it into the foreplay and throughout the whole experience making it really intentional and sexy. Like you said about the kink community, there is a lot that we can learn about boundaries from the kink community. They are really great at communication, it has to be so clear and consensual and we have to understand our boundaries before beginning because otherwise they can be so easily crossed. So much to learn from them.
MICKIE: So much. I am grateful for that. My entrance into the field was kind of through the kink community a little bit, I’ve never really considered myself a super kinky person but I am game. I have always been interested. I entered learning about over communication, learning about safe words, your sexual boundaries, your sexual must haves and how when you are incorporating things that could be painful in some way they require that extra step of communication and extra step of comfort. I am super grateful for that. So much of my work comes from what I’ve learnt from the kink community.
ELEANOR: I feel like there’s a lot of crossover with people you are non-monogamous as well, in my experience with non-monogamy and open relating there is a high level, like you said, over communicating where you are beyond clear about how you feel about things that you can thrive in that relationship because it won't work if we don’t have clear communication. It’s so interesting that it’s the “extreme” example of relating that has such clear communication whereas the status quo mainstream types of relationships it's strange to communicate so much, it’s seen as not normal. It’s seen as assumptions are rife in mainstream relationships because we have not been socialised to communicate. We have just been socialised to assume. Haven’t we?
MICKIE: Right. That’s the struggle. When you are a heterosexual individual and you’re monogamous and you’re going into a relationship - There's often this script that we feel we have to follow, that we have been given. That’s just how things go. Whether that is sexually, romantically there’s these rules - this is how you have sex, this is how you date. You don’t cheat, you do this and you stay in this box that you are given and it’s so limiting. Like we are saying earlier - everyone is different, everyone relates to one another, experiences things differently so we have to give ourselves room to explore all parts of ourselves and not put ourselves in these boxes. For some people these boxes fit perfectly and that is good for them but for a lot of people it’s a little cramped in there so I’m all for removing the box and creating your own.
ELEANOR: I totally agree. All that comes down to self awareness. What feels good for me, what doesn’t feel good for me, allowing yourself to explore that and then exploring it even deeper with a partner with their support.
MICKIE: It’s all full circle. It really is.
ELEANOR: Definitely. So, I want to talk a little more about boundaries, I think that boundaries and communication have so much to do with one another. You need to communicate with yourself to create boundaries and to create and enforce boundaries you need to communicate with others. So, in a recent post you shared - you changed your perspective of boundaries from these ideas of barriers instead to pathways and using these pathways as ways to give others better and healthier ways of accessing me - I just love this description of boundaries because a lot of people hear the word boundaries and think it’s just my rules and regulations that you are not allowed to do this, not allowed to do that and it’s quite negative but this description that you created is much more open and fulfilling. This idea of pathways to create a more healthy relationship. I would love for you to expand a little more on this. How can we create these pathways?
MICKIE: I’m glad you enjoy that. I do remember writing that. I don’t really subscribe to the idea of giving yourself unconditionally. By that I mean, it’s way healthier to show up in ways that I can. Show up in ways that make sense to both me and that person. Not overextending myself. Sometimes giving people room and space, the room to figure things out on their own. It’s not always healthy to always be there for someone, to be always accessible to someone especially if you are someone who identifies as a people pleaser. If you have a pattern in your past relationships of giving too much of yourself too soon it can be a really healthy thing to know when and where to pull back a little bit. It’s not to say that you can’t still show up fully, it's fully in the ways that are healthiest for you and that person. It can look like a lot of different things. It can look like certain things you are not going to talk about. For example, if I have family members that don’t agree with a certain thing that I do or if there is tension whenever we talk about this one thing but you still want to have a healthy relationship with this family member, you still want to connect with them. Taking certain things off the table instead of bringing both of you to the point of tension or misunderstanding whenever you talk about this one thing. Or, it could mean like certain days you take off the week when you are just not really answering your phone. You allow people to text you, maybe phone calls are draining for you and you decide to take Sunday & Monday off to not just answer calls like that. Let people know so they have an understanding of it when it happens, making sure you show up for yourself, show up for your mental health because what I’m saying is that if you give too much of yourself sometimes you are draining too much of yourself, showing up for other people. I definitely subscribe to the idea that you can't pour from an empty cup so making sure you yourself are first full in the right place before you extend yourself to others. I hope that makes sense.
ELEANOR: That completely makes sense. I know that in my work especially with a lot of women this idea of people pleasing it comes up constantly, so many of my clients identify as people pleasers. In a way we are socialised to be people pleasers and to put everybody first especially those who are mothers it’s almost this assumption that you will put everyone before yourself. I think a lot of people feel that desire as well because it is very fulfilling but it can get to the point like you said that you are burning out if you aren’t putting yourself first and filling up your own cup before sharing what you have on offer to others.
Another quote of yours that I loved - When you enforce your boundaries you give yourself room to breathe, grow, change, rest or whatever else you feel your soul is calling you to do. So you can eventually show up for loved ones more fully and more effectively. - I love that.
MICKIE: I said that so much more eloquently in writing. Exactly, what she said.
ELEANOR: I love it. I think it’s so important and I love that description of boundaries and the way you have been describing it and giving those examples from real life. We can have these conversations with people that are not so fulfilling so we put that topic off the table so that we can maintain our relationship rather than constantly getting stuck in that cycle and that can obviously be with so many different things but what a lovely way to keep relationships flourishing without damaging your relationship with yourself as well.
MICKIE: Right. You mentioned damaging, without damaging your relationship with that person. I think that sometimes we opt for cutting this person out and sometimes that is the best most effective way to approach it but sometimes its not. Sometimes you can still have a relationship with someone but you have to change the terms and conditions that is all.
ELEANOR: I love that idea - changing the terms and conditions. We are just going to update our terms and conditions today.
MICKIE: Yes, just optimising.
ELEANOR: Optimising our relationships. I think that is beautiful. Optimising through communication, clear communication, understanding where we are at all times.
MICKIE: At first requires self awareness
ELEANOR: Exactly. Coming in full circle. Another thing I wanted to ask you about in your writing you talk a lot about this idea of falling in love and you shared - just as there is no walking after falling several times first there is no loving without first learning how and I’d love to ask you - how do we learn how to love? I think that it’s something that we just assume that we know and it’s something that just comes naturally but like you are talking about communicating about sex with Sex Talk we aren’t really given this template until now of how to communicate about sex and how do we love and share that with people as well?
MICKIE: Yeah, I love talking about this. I started reading this amazing book “The Art of Loving”. It's very philosophical, philosophy on love by Erich Fromm. In the beginning of the book we find ourselves diving into love same way with sex. The exact same thing - eyes closed, dive in and expect things to work out perfectly without taking a step back and really analysing the situation. I love that he mentioned that love requires two things 1) the practice of putting yourself out there and remaining open to love, opening yourself up to other people, allowing yourself to be seen by other people, accepting other people and that takes a lot of practice 2) the other part is theory. That is a part that isn’t talked a lot about. Taking a step and understanding love on your own terms and knowing what love looks like for you, knowing what it looks like to give it, knowing what it looks like to receive it and the best ways to receive and understand. The best ways to receive and understand. I am thankful for a lot of knowledge that keeps popping up on social media right now. It's a pretty well known thing, the 5 love languages. It helps us understand how to understand other people's love and our own love. There’s also learning your own attachment style. Learning your way that you express your desire, sexual interests, where that comes from, how you romance others, how you like to be romanced. You can learn all that in conjunction with practising it. I think it’s really important to take a step back full circle and really learn what love looks like to you and the best way to cultivate that and because it looks different for everyone and go on that journey by ourselves.
ELEANOR: That is such a beautiful way of describing it. I think that there are so many tools out there, to explore all the different ways that we can love and at the end of the day it all comes down to self exploration. I love what you said about the correlation between love and sex. So often we assume that we jump in head first, eyes closed and we expect it to magically happen. I know that a lot of people have this assumption and I’ve had an ex say this to me in the past that it’s meant to be easy because we get shown in media, in films, TV that it’s all rainbows and butterflies, a perfect underscore of music for the romantic moment and all of a sudden you are filled with butterflies and you are in love and everything is peachy. It’s not quite realistic. Love and sex is so beautiful and mind blowing and you have to have a conversations about it. Do Inner work and explore yourself and your partner to enhance it to make it work long term if that’s your goal.
MICKIE: Yeah, I love how you preface that with ‘I had an Ex.’ That said, hmm, I wonder how that worked out for you. Things being easy and sticking with the fact that things should be easy, no relationships take work, love takes work, sex also takes work. You get what you put in. When you put in intention, you give it your all you show up , you make yourself seen. That could be really ugly, that could be really tough stuff, digging up stuff from your childhood, digging up past traumas but from my experience it’s always worth it. Just talk about it to put it out there. It’s tough, it’s hard but every single time it’s worth it.
ELEANOR: I totally agree. I think that there is a lot that goes on to create a really beautiful relationship sometimes it’s really messy like you said and it can be really heartbreaking and difficult but always so worth it because even if the relationship doesn’t “work out” or last you still learnt so much, you can add to your boundary tool kit - ok this is the behaviour that I will and won't accept in the future, this is what I desire. Maybe that person couldn’t give that to me but I’m going to maintain this boundary and attract someone into my life who will respect that boundary and will show up for me in ways that I now realise I need.
MICKIE: Yeah, it’s dangerous to put the pressure to sacrifice parts of yourself for the sake of being with another person and to disregard what you know about yourself, to disregard the boundary that you put in place. I’m just speaking honestly from personal experience as you learn and you grow you learn what works and what doesn’t. It’s sometimes easy to have that awareness when it gets to the point you understand that part about yourself but then the hard part is actually upholding it and sticking to your boundaries and sticking to what you know you need in the relationship. Parts of relationships can definitely be easy and beautiful but a percentage of it should be a little messy and that’s a good sign.
ELEANOR: I do too. There is definitely a ratio and I can’t remember right now. I know Gottman Institute has done some research on the ratio for fulfilling relationships. It’s something like 1 negative encounter needs about 5 positive encounters to balance it out and if the ratio is skewed and you have got more tough times and arguments and fighting and distrust whatever the negative emotions are. If you have more of those than you do positive then there is a problem there. I think there is a fine line, I want to send the message - you shouldn’t have to compromise yourself for a relationship but at the same time there is going to be compromise in relationships for them to grow.
MICKIE: I like that. I have heard the 80/20 rule regarding relationships that 80% of it should be good and there is room for the 20% to have the bad, the arguments, the messiness. Like you said, conflict is inevitable and you have to decide what you are willing to compromise on and what you’re not willing to compromise on.
ELEANOR: I think that this notion of compromise has been something that I have been talking a lot to my students lately because we have been reading the book “Women Don’t Own You Pretty” . I'm running this book club. We have been talking about this because so often there is this martyrdom for especially women who get told that it’s so amazing to see them compromising so much to be giving it all up for love. To be sacrificing themselves for their partner and we don’t often see that in the reverse gender roles and this is speaking in the binary here but it’s quite often that the women are celebrated for putting themselves last in a way. So my conflict here is that I never want people to sacrifice themselves for another person and yet at the same time for a successful relationship we do need to compromise a little bit to take into account the other person in the relationship that isn’t us as well.
MICKIE: I love everything that you just said. No one person is perfect and when you have two imperfect people coming together and trying to fit into all these imperfections or these scripts that we have been given - fitting into these ideas that we are supposed to be, women often get this pat on the back, mothers who have given it all up. It’s tough to find your place in it all and I do feel that you have to find what works best for you, the relationship and the other person. That does take writing up your own rules, the scripts that we are given doesn’t always fit everybody and you have to know what makes the most sense in this situation.
ELEANOR: Definitely. Bringing it back to Sex Talk. What are the benefits of having very clear communication about sex?
MICKIE: kind of what I was touching on earlier when you open yourself up to having the conversation you’re making so much room for variety, new possibilities, new ways of experiencing pleasure, new ways to give your partner pleasure. I don’t really know, for me to actually get that there has to be a conversation first. There are ways to communicate with your body. I am not going to leave that out there. Some people in general find it easiest to communicate in that way. Also I like to think that as humans we are given this gift of language and it can be used for good, bad and ugly but I think we should be using it in all areas of our lives for the best abilities that we can. That includes sex in my opinion like use your words, use what we are given. Animals don’t get the privilege of being able to speak easily. I’m sure they have their own language, there are so many ways for us to communicate ourselves and there’s only but benefits in my opinion when it comes to approaching your sex life and ways of wanting to improve it and to provide more pleasure for you and your partner. It’s a win-win in my opinion, more pleasure for you, more pleasure for them.
ELEANOR: Talk more about sex and you’re going to experience way more pleasure.
MICKIE: Easy, yeah.
ELEANOR: Amazing.Thank you so much for chatting to us today Mickie it’s been such a pleasure to have you here on the podcast and can you tell us where we can find Sex Talk the game because I’m sure that everybody is ready to buy
MICKIE: You can purchase Sex Talk at www.sextalkgame.com there you can find more information about it and you are able to purchase and of course you can learn more about everything I’m saying or learn more ways to communicate, to introduce more intimate pleasure into your lives you can follow the Instagram account as well @sextalkgame.
ELEANOR: Amazing. Thank you so much and good luck with Sex Talk I can’t wait to play.
MICKIE: Thank you Eleanor.
